I love this post David. I was right there enjoying watching the story unfold paragraph by paragraph of the birds and the bees and the wonder of nature which finds uses for what can be labelled as weeds.
And then: "No one gets into heaven, you see, unless they hate the right people and things." This resonates for me having being told many times through my life that certain people including myself won't be going to heaven. The judging God, the punitive God. That god is the human created god.
Compassion and empathy are the true indicators that someone is already in heaven, in my humble opinion.
I read with interest the comments too. You have a passionate community of nature lovers here. I learnt a few things and feel reassured to know that at the heart of your Garden of His Imagination is someone who attracts people dedicated to protecting the earth, and all of it's inhabitants. It feels a good conversation to have.
I think sometimes we can over explain our reasons for doing something with disclaimers etc so as to not offend. I do it all the time. Sometimes I have found it can be better to just let our words sit there without explanations, knowing that they hold truth for us. And then allow the space for others' interpretations without premeditating it. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing necessarily. And if people really get riled about what you write then they will go elsewhere which is fine. However I can't see that happening here.
Thank you for what you do and I really enjoy your knowledgable, wise and caring community too. xx. ( ps sorry longest reply ever! I have over explained myself! ) 😃
"Compassion and empathy are the true indicators that someone is already in heaven, in my humble opinion."
This is perfection! How exquisitely thought. How beautifully shared.
Please no apologies. You have not overexplained yourself at all. I'm so grateful that this is a place where you can say what calls out in you to be said. And as for your encouragement to me regarding over-explaining and the ways that that can get in the way, I know you're right.
I'm so sorry for the aches that have almost certainly accompanied at least some of those times you've been told that your future is heavenly rejection. Leaves me a bit achey. Been there. Still there in the eyes of some.
Your are a full-on gift here, and I'm ever so grateful that you trust me and this place enough to risk being just who you are. What a gift you are.
I don't believe in hating any plants, but I do believe we need to consider the views of those who have a long relationship with this continent and cultures dependent on the native plants that invasive weeds are displacing. I take to heart the words of this unnamed Mohawk artist and educator who was quoted in an essay about invasive weeds, “they have destroyed our ability to access our medicinal plants, to practice our ceremonies, to practice our material culture.” The plants, she went on, have as much impact “as any human invasion.” I think we need to honor those voices too.
So glad those smart beings didn’t listen to the ‘know it all’ human .
I see the way the Goldfinch is looking at you with a mouthful of thistle-down. They know you by now. Your comments are just background noise against the golden, and lavender fluff. 🌼
Thanks for the footnote, and the allegory, David. Labels and divisions are some of humans' most dangerous inventions, seems to me, and I appreciate your storytelling as a way to get us to think about our own biases. As a plant ecologist, I'm focused on the relationships you are using metaphorically, so I would just ask you to be careful about not rhapsodizing invasive weeds. That "invasive" label is a serious one, not just a value judgement. "Invasive weed" means a plant that is lacking relationships with the communities it lands in and can wreak havoc on the health of whole landscapes, like cheatgrass in the West causing fires that destroy millions of acres of sagebrush, which is critical to the lives of 150 species of vertebrates, and I don't how many invertebrates. I don't hate cheatgrass, but I don't rhapsodize the damage it is capable of causing by its behavior either. Canada thistle displaces native thistle species, and while an American goldfinch will make use of Canada thistle for food and nesting material, native thistles also feed the larvae of native butterflies, and Canada thistle doesn't. So there's a reason to plant native thistles and thin out the Canada thistles, for instance. All of which I point out to say that using nature as the basis for an allegory rests on understanding the details of the lives you are allegorizing and knowing the complexities they carry!
Right there with ya' up to the point that it feels as if I'm supposed to have been rhapsodizing about the noxious weeds here, when actually I wasn't. I showed actual photographs of some native bees and goldfinches making use of what's available in an area just a few miles from my home. If I show these animals without comment on the plants, then am I passively approving of them? So I acknowledged that they were noxious weeds rather than saying nothing. This is a special place where I find many more goldfinches gathered for nesting season than anywhere else, the swaths of rhizomatous thistle provide so much food that it has become a gathering place for goldfinches every year. I can't very well photograph them beautifully without perhaps 'glamorizing' the thistle along with them. If I make beautiful photos of goldfinches among these thistles then I'm making beautiful 'rhapsodic' images of the noxious thistles, too. Feels like a Catch 22.
If you've read other pieces I've shared over the past few weeks, Thistle Murder, etc.
you'll see me advocating for the natives, pointing out the differences and decrying ignorant killing of the natives by ill-informed persons who want to lump all thistles into the 'must hate and kill' camp, simply because they are thistles.
I know and actually love one teaching garden, beloved by many, that in addition to religiously eradicating all the Himalayan Blackberry and tansy ragwort, also got rid of all the thistles and all that troublesome stinging nettle that so many butterflies depend on as a host plant, falling into that age old trap of thinking that "whatever I don't like must go." This is neither informed nor sustainable thinking. And yet it is a garden that continually advocates for and preaches sustainability.
So I went back and reread what I'd written and the only place that I can find that someone might reasonably think I was rhapsodizing about a noxious weed is when I used the adjective 'delicious' while describing the orange pollen the bee was gathering. I don't know for a fact that it is delicious to a bee and so it is a somewhat anthropomorphic assumption.
I knew that I was dancing along the edge of a ravine by even attempting this little tale, and your stated concerns confirm that I should, perhaps be more careful in future.
I keep wondering how the Grimm brothers got away with telling all those stories without breaking their flow by adding a bunch of proper disclaimers so that no one would take offense or misunderstand...
You wrote: "All of which I point out to say that using nature as the basis for an allegory rests on understanding the details of the lives you are allegorizing and knowing the complexities they carry!"
I read your earlier piece on thistles but didn't comment because I had to think carefully and examine my own biases before responding. I used the word rhapsodizing because that's the quality of your writing. Your words and the cadences you use are beautiful and full of a spiritual connection to the lives around us, which I appreciate very much. And I'm sorry of that one word offended you. That wasn't my intention. As for the thistles, I would just say perhaps it would be good to plant some native thistles and see who they draw in, just to understand the web of relationships in more depth and detail. And ditto with another yellow composite that blooms at the same time as tansy ragwort, to see what relationships those local plants bring. There is research suggesting that tansy ragwort pollen is toxic to at least some species of NA bees, which the bee in your photo wouldn't know, because she is collecting pollen to provision the solitary nests where she will lay eggs, and once the pollen ball is made and the nest sealed, she doesn't go back to tend it. So if the egg hatches and the larvae dies rather than fledging into an adult bee, that mom gathering pollen won't get that feedback. Which means she'll keep gathering pollen from a plant that could be toxic to her young. It's a complicated business, the world of relationships that make up what we call nature.
You’re as smart as any one I know and a doctor so I know you’ll do the research to find the friendly native thistles for your area. Maybe check out Log House Plants who, quite brilliantly are growing and marketing Butterfly Host Plants for NW Cascadia.
A lovley analogy to be sure, and heart breaking and infuriating to be told one won't go to heaven. I also think it can apply more literally too, as I've found even among nature lovers, there is the sentiment that you are suppose to hate invasive species, and if you don't then you're a part of the problem. I posted about this recently, that it is possible to support the control of invasive without hate. Mixed emotions and even appreciation of aspects of such a plant/creature can be normal. https://lindsayhartley.substack.com/p/young-cottontail-rabbit-kiss-the
I love this post David. I was right there enjoying watching the story unfold paragraph by paragraph of the birds and the bees and the wonder of nature which finds uses for what can be labelled as weeds.
And then: "No one gets into heaven, you see, unless they hate the right people and things." This resonates for me having being told many times through my life that certain people including myself won't be going to heaven. The judging God, the punitive God. That god is the human created god.
Compassion and empathy are the true indicators that someone is already in heaven, in my humble opinion.
I read with interest the comments too. You have a passionate community of nature lovers here. I learnt a few things and feel reassured to know that at the heart of your Garden of His Imagination is someone who attracts people dedicated to protecting the earth, and all of it's inhabitants. It feels a good conversation to have.
I think sometimes we can over explain our reasons for doing something with disclaimers etc so as to not offend. I do it all the time. Sometimes I have found it can be better to just let our words sit there without explanations, knowing that they hold truth for us. And then allow the space for others' interpretations without premeditating it. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing necessarily. And if people really get riled about what you write then they will go elsewhere which is fine. However I can't see that happening here.
Thank you for what you do and I really enjoy your knowledgable, wise and caring community too. xx. ( ps sorry longest reply ever! I have over explained myself! ) 😃
"Compassion and empathy are the true indicators that someone is already in heaven, in my humble opinion."
This is perfection! How exquisitely thought. How beautifully shared.
Please no apologies. You have not overexplained yourself at all. I'm so grateful that this is a place where you can say what calls out in you to be said. And as for your encouragement to me regarding over-explaining and the ways that that can get in the way, I know you're right.
I'm so sorry for the aches that have almost certainly accompanied at least some of those times you've been told that your future is heavenly rejection. Leaves me a bit achey. Been there. Still there in the eyes of some.
Your are a full-on gift here, and I'm ever so grateful that you trust me and this place enough to risk being just who you are. What a gift you are.
Oh wow. What a beautiful reply. Thank you David. 🥲🥰🙏💜
🙏
I don't believe in hating any plants, but I do believe we need to consider the views of those who have a long relationship with this continent and cultures dependent on the native plants that invasive weeds are displacing. I take to heart the words of this unnamed Mohawk artist and educator who was quoted in an essay about invasive weeds, “they have destroyed our ability to access our medicinal plants, to practice our ceremonies, to practice our material culture.” The plants, she went on, have as much impact “as any human invasion.” I think we need to honor those voices too.
I love your poem this morning! I'm with the bees & goldfinches---yeah, yellow weeds are everything, sometimes.
These blooms are beautiful, so full of life---loved the life-layers held within your poem.
Thanks, pal.
Rumors, nasty little things.
So glad those smart beings didn’t listen to the ‘know it all’ human .
I see the way the Goldfinch is looking at you with a mouthful of thistle-down. They know you by now. Your comments are just background noise against the golden, and lavender fluff. 🌼
( If only hate was just background noise)
"If only hate was just background noise." Indeed!
I'm so grateful for your thoughts when you choose to weigh in, Lor. Love your take on things.
I thank you.
Thanks for the footnote, and the allegory, David. Labels and divisions are some of humans' most dangerous inventions, seems to me, and I appreciate your storytelling as a way to get us to think about our own biases. As a plant ecologist, I'm focused on the relationships you are using metaphorically, so I would just ask you to be careful about not rhapsodizing invasive weeds. That "invasive" label is a serious one, not just a value judgement. "Invasive weed" means a plant that is lacking relationships with the communities it lands in and can wreak havoc on the health of whole landscapes, like cheatgrass in the West causing fires that destroy millions of acres of sagebrush, which is critical to the lives of 150 species of vertebrates, and I don't how many invertebrates. I don't hate cheatgrass, but I don't rhapsodize the damage it is capable of causing by its behavior either. Canada thistle displaces native thistle species, and while an American goldfinch will make use of Canada thistle for food and nesting material, native thistles also feed the larvae of native butterflies, and Canada thistle doesn't. So there's a reason to plant native thistles and thin out the Canada thistles, for instance. All of which I point out to say that using nature as the basis for an allegory rests on understanding the details of the lives you are allegorizing and knowing the complexities they carry!
Right there with ya' up to the point that it feels as if I'm supposed to have been rhapsodizing about the noxious weeds here, when actually I wasn't. I showed actual photographs of some native bees and goldfinches making use of what's available in an area just a few miles from my home. If I show these animals without comment on the plants, then am I passively approving of them? So I acknowledged that they were noxious weeds rather than saying nothing. This is a special place where I find many more goldfinches gathered for nesting season than anywhere else, the swaths of rhizomatous thistle provide so much food that it has become a gathering place for goldfinches every year. I can't very well photograph them beautifully without perhaps 'glamorizing' the thistle along with them. If I make beautiful photos of goldfinches among these thistles then I'm making beautiful 'rhapsodic' images of the noxious thistles, too. Feels like a Catch 22.
If you've read other pieces I've shared over the past few weeks, Thistle Murder, etc.
https://open.substack.com/pub/davideperry/p/thistle-murder?r=2bfb89&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
you'll see me advocating for the natives, pointing out the differences and decrying ignorant killing of the natives by ill-informed persons who want to lump all thistles into the 'must hate and kill' camp, simply because they are thistles.
I know and actually love one teaching garden, beloved by many, that in addition to religiously eradicating all the Himalayan Blackberry and tansy ragwort, also got rid of all the thistles and all that troublesome stinging nettle that so many butterflies depend on as a host plant, falling into that age old trap of thinking that "whatever I don't like must go." This is neither informed nor sustainable thinking. And yet it is a garden that continually advocates for and preaches sustainability.
So I went back and reread what I'd written and the only place that I can find that someone might reasonably think I was rhapsodizing about a noxious weed is when I used the adjective 'delicious' while describing the orange pollen the bee was gathering. I don't know for a fact that it is delicious to a bee and so it is a somewhat anthropomorphic assumption.
I knew that I was dancing along the edge of a ravine by even attempting this little tale, and your stated concerns confirm that I should, perhaps be more careful in future.
I keep wondering how the Grimm brothers got away with telling all those stories without breaking their flow by adding a bunch of proper disclaimers so that no one would take offense or misunderstand...
You wrote: "All of which I point out to say that using nature as the basis for an allegory rests on understanding the details of the lives you are allegorizing and knowing the complexities they carry!"
Amen!
I'll be more careful in future.
I read your earlier piece on thistles but didn't comment because I had to think carefully and examine my own biases before responding. I used the word rhapsodizing because that's the quality of your writing. Your words and the cadences you use are beautiful and full of a spiritual connection to the lives around us, which I appreciate very much. And I'm sorry of that one word offended you. That wasn't my intention. As for the thistles, I would just say perhaps it would be good to plant some native thistles and see who they draw in, just to understand the web of relationships in more depth and detail. And ditto with another yellow composite that blooms at the same time as tansy ragwort, to see what relationships those local plants bring. There is research suggesting that tansy ragwort pollen is toxic to at least some species of NA bees, which the bee in your photo wouldn't know, because she is collecting pollen to provision the solitary nests where she will lay eggs, and once the pollen ball is made and the nest sealed, she doesn't go back to tend it. So if the egg hatches and the larvae dies rather than fledging into an adult bee, that mom gathering pollen won't get that feedback. Which means she'll keep gathering pollen from a plant that could be toxic to her young. It's a complicated business, the world of relationships that make up what we call nature.
David, Thanks a bunch for a little lite anthropomorphized morality story that has a bee stinger at the end... Ouch, got the point!
I have a lovely patch in our bee and butterfly gardens that would be ideal for thistle. Now I have to find some thistle seeds….
You’re as smart as any one I know and a doctor so I know you’ll do the research to find the friendly native thistles for your area. Maybe check out Log House Plants who, quite brilliantly are growing and marketing Butterfly Host Plants for NW Cascadia.
They will probably find you - don't worry
I love this! Add dandelions and clover to the list of plants we are "supposed" to hate. Oh, and milkweed which I leave anywhere it appears.
What a beautiful and wise metaphors! Lovely
I had some of that in my garden and loved it-until it was hard to control and was simplifying life.
A lovley analogy to be sure, and heart breaking and infuriating to be told one won't go to heaven. I also think it can apply more literally too, as I've found even among nature lovers, there is the sentiment that you are suppose to hate invasive species, and if you don't then you're a part of the problem. I posted about this recently, that it is possible to support the control of invasive without hate. Mixed emotions and even appreciation of aspects of such a plant/creature can be normal. https://lindsayhartley.substack.com/p/young-cottontail-rabbit-kiss-the
Thank you, Lindsay. A calming, wise voice feels pretty wonderful just now.
You're welcome, and thank you for the kind words.
Brilliant.
This is fabulous ☀️✨🕊️
Thank you, M.I.
Utterly wonderful and very true (well, for the most part). Thank you.
Thank you, Richard.
Perfect. Hatred is just ignorance of the full story.
Amen, Pamela.
I came upon a thatch of almost-blooming thistle last week and may have audibly gasped, "baby thistle!" in delight.
This left me smiling so big. And then the pics. Thank you my friend.