Twenty and early thirty something here, who has curtailed many jet fueled miles to try and stem at least one drop in the tidal wave of environmental collapse that has been driven, by and large, by my parents’ generation. When I spend time with my peers there is discussion about emissions reductions and social action. When I spend time with my elders there is eye rolling, from a generation who was taught that energy is endless and free of consequence. But the more we point fingers at each other the louder the politicians and the fossil fuel barons - who are entirely to blame for driving that narrative - laugh.
Such a kind response. It's much appreciated. Yesterday's post hit some nerves and I felt for you as I read through some of the comments. And you always handle us with such grace and sensitivity. Thank you, David. You're a lovely, powerful writer.
My observations are the youth are no better, or worse, than the other generations in combating global warming.
Join me in tenaciously promoting the following messaging. Files for promoting the messaging are available on the Promote page of the mentioned web site.
Consumers (individuals, organizations, businesses, governments) must promptly minimize their greenhouse gas emissions to bridge the gap while we work on long-term green technology and infrastructure. Less heating and less cooling (none between 13C-30C/55F-85F, https://greenbetween.home.blog). Less driving. Less flying. Less meat-eating. Less population growth (2 children max). Do it yourself. Tenaciously encourage others to do it.
Thank you David for this profound message of reality. It is a sad commentary on the human condition, at least here in ‘the west’ where there is so much beauty to behold if only one is willing to look for it, observe it, respect it and wish to protect it. ‘Looking after me’ seems too often to be the choice of the day….a very self-serving, short term vision. All that said, I still cling to hope, and savour the beauty. If I didn’t, I would probably spiral down into depression and give up.
Whew. Reading your word, I ache, feel confused, want....want something different. But know that it's unlikely, alas. And, and yet the world is beautiful, still.
That was hard to read, David. I, too, mourn. I think I care as much as you do and/but I'm weakening under that burden. I feel utterly helpless against the onslaught. It began to get (and may very well have gotten) the best of me when I had to move to where I now live. I won't go into detail (this is your blog; not mine 🐸) but all I do today (in terms of "my part") is entice the birds into my small backyard with clean water and oatmeal (Yes, oatmeal. Uncooked. They love it and I believe it's healthy for them). I'm in the Sonoran Desert and birds are plentiful here and they are the light of my life. The problem is, all around me are mountains of discarded plastics and rotting tires. The way they "landscape" down here ("Down here" meaning the south side) is with dyed roundup. It sickens me. I can't stop them from spraying that shit. I can't teach "adults" to stop littering when they've been doing it all their lives. Where am I going with this? I don't know. Is it enough to care about the birds in my yard and try to block out the rest? It doesn't feel like enough. I'm so sad about this. That's enough. Sorry my post is so long. I said I wouldn't go into detail...
Ohhh, Debi, your note is a gift. And it leaves me achey. I did not set out to drop such a 'hard read.' I do not suspect for even a moment that you care less than I. I don't think in those terms at all. And like you, I feel profoundly helpless in the onslaught some days. Your oatmeal feasts and clean water are just what are needed by so many little songsters and your contribution to their health and happiness is absolutely what this world needs. I'm so grateful that you dialed up the courage to leave such a generous and heartfelt comment. It was exactly as long as it needed to be and I am most grateful.
Well written and an intriguing and different perspective on my generation. It feels to me, as a 29 year old, as if we are often the only ones taking climate collapse seriously. The rich get richer through profitizing and privatizing natural lands and resources. Those of us a bit below that age and income threshold are stuck trying to decide how much of our joy and lives we sacrifice to the cause, how much we adjust to try to ensure future survival. I myself have struggled throughout my 20s to decide if I want children. I think that I do, but as a biologist, I also understand the reality of what is coming for us humans. Ultimately, I don’t want to subject children to it, so I have decided not to have any. And, as a biologist, I witness the biodiversity and habitat loss first hand every day. Many of my peers do to, even in other professions. Most of my friends are constantly concerned with the degradation and loss of our environment, and most of decided not to have children. It haunts us daily.
BUT I also believe there is a lot of beauty left to live for, a lot of joy and truth left in the natural world to experience, despite all we have witnessed, despite the mess left to us by those who came before. A perspective I try to hang on to in the face of it all. We are all here in it together, all doing the best we can. A recognition of nature and the sacred in us all helps me on the darker days.
Anyway, sorry for the long comment. Thank you for sharing!
Angie, I'm so grateful for your very thoughtful comments and encourage you to release any reticence or hold onto any need to apologize for them.
You wrote: "It feels to me, as a 29 year old, as if we are often the only ones taking climate collapse seriously." I do not doubt that this is how it feels and in some ways, as a guy in his mid-sixties that is how it has seemed to me for some time now, that your generation would likely be the ones to step up and save the lot of us from centuries of ignorance, greed and carelessness. But the data points I've been accumulating over the past few years do not seem to match up with my hopeful assumptions. Not that there is anything inherently less aware in your generation than mine ...or any other. Just that I'm really not seeing much concern from any age group. I'd think that people my age would so adore their children and grandchildren, and want so much to leave a better planet to them than the one they were born into that they'd be modifying their behaviors and trimming their expectations a bit, for posterity's sake, which seems like a grand idea until it bumps into someone's envisioned family reunion in Hawaii where all the kids will fly in with all their kids from the far reaches for a week of sun and sand, and shared laughter and meals, and jet-ski rentals and sunset keg stands on the beach. Woo-Hoo!
I feel bad, having read your kind note that I somehow implied that your generation is the problem. I didn't intend to and don't actually believe that to be the case. I'm just beginning to come to terms with, and so, releasing, finally my misplaced and unfair assumptions that they would be more a part of the solution than some other age groups. I was around a bunch of smart, affluent, kind-hearted and profoundly well educated people your age over the holidays and I continually listened to them talking about flying across the country to attend someone's engagement party later this month and to a half dozen weddings around the country already on the books before their leaf-peeping trip to New England next fall. Add in, then the two or three international vacays they're hoping to squeeze as well in twenty-twenty-four and, well, perhaps you can see the source of some of my confusion. My real intent was not to denigrate anyone or any age group, but rather to wonder aloud about how we seem to be normalizing things like bird-flu deaths and extinctions, and at least in some circles, not at all concerned about the vast changes that seem to scientists and careful observers just out there on the horizon. Please accept my thanks for your very thoughtful approach to such weighty decisions and for helping me understand a bit better some of the poor expressions and poor thinking in my own writings.
Like you I am still absolutely enchanted by the beauty that is and I spend far more time and energy feeding my sense of wonder than decrying my sense of dread. I keep on 'Birding the Apocalypse,' complimenting and talking to my feathered cousins, even on the days when I cannot quite look past the sadness and sense of loss.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply! I certainly didn't mean to make you feel bad or question your wording. I do believe we really are just in different circles. And I certainly cannot say my circle is innocent, either. I travelled internationally last year, as did many of my coworkers - all of us biologists who love and revere the natural world. Furthermore, I certainly have friends who didn't know we were in the middle of a mass extinction event until I told them. I certainly recognize that I'm in a unique position of exposure to it through my job and education.
I am beginning to feel like a lot of it is a combination of human nature (our shortsighted perceptions) and systemic consequence. It's very difficult for humans to see large timescales, like the ones our planet operates on. It's also very difficult to break free of the systems and the patterns we are in. For example, if there's a wedding of loved ones we want to go to, we will go, whether we "should" buy those plane tickets or not. Exactly like you said, it's all a grand idea to save the world until we actually have to go about making the sacrifices to do it. I think many of us, deep down, are just caught up in this system, just going with the way things are. We aren't really going to make big changes in our habits until we quite literally can't afford to anymore.
I also find it really striking, and honestly almost funny from a wider perspective, that you say your generation was hoping mine would save us, while I think mine was hoping the same of yours. It's like we're all very quick to throw the blame and responsibility on somebody else, without actually examining our own personal values and practices first. Another very widespread and undeniably human trait, and one that I think my generation is particularly guilty of. We do love waiting for somebody else to save us. In the face of a problem so huge, it's easy to understand why we all feel so helpless. It's far too large for any one group to tackle, yet keeping us divided by any group lines allows the system to continue on as it is. Those who profit off destroying our ecosystems can continue to do so, while the rest of us try to pick up the pieces.
Anyway, thanks again for your response and your piece. I am very happy to know that there are compassionate and thoughtful people all over who care about the same things, and that we have a platform for connection. I also love birds and look forward to reading more of your posts! Your written humor reminds me a bit of my late grandpa's writing, and I really enjoy it.
You are a gift, Angie and I am immensely pleased to make your better acquaintance. I have a feeling we'll have more to talk about and I look forward to learning from you. I'm smiling at the thought of it.
I can’t help but feel “meeting” you here through your writing and photography is a reminder to me of the necessity of kindred spirits. Grateful for your beautiful soul, David, and that you share it with us.
Thank you, Mackenzie. That gratitude you feel is quite mutual.
And for what it's worth, I promise not to show up as Davey Downer on any sort of depressingly regular basis. Some days though you wanna get downriver, you gotta either portage or run the damn rapids.
So hard to be a naturalist these days and look most anywhere as we can see the struggles and demise of the beauty and harshness we came to love in our youth. We fear for the future of lives on this planet. I guess it has always been so for lovers of the wild and unrestrained. We just know it for ourselves today.
“Species are diminished due to environmental forces,(habitat fragmentation, global change, natural disaster, over exploitation of species for human use )or due to environmental changes in their members…”
“Still others suffered directly at the hands of humans, driven to extinction.”
“Habitat loss is the primary cause of higher extinction rates.”
concept considered reprehensible or unmentionable”
Reprehensible
(Oxford dictionary)
“ condemnation “
“The expression of very strong disapproval “
( deep breath)
To me , Extinction is a frightening word . What will be for generations to come?
Allowing the planet to continue on a path that will escalate extinction of many species , is reprehensible .
Global warming, habitat fragmentation, endangered species, biodiversity loss,
Extinction.
We all have heard conversations like ,“ I don’t believe in global warming or I don’t believe in climate change”. My answer ; you don’t have to believe in it, it’s not a religion . It is a scientific fact.
I used the term dirty word because many roll their eyes , or turn away in disdain from the the topic of extinction.
As if it was a dirty word.
(Exhale)
Thank you for asking for clarification.
I guess I am also being asked to clarify my comment;
“I can’t just give this a heart , seems totally inappropriate. Very disturbing indeed.”
I am fairly new to Substack. I love reading posts that interest me. Some have authored incredible pieces of writing. Intriguing and brilliant works of fiction and nonfiction.
Your post today is a well written, very serious post discussing possibly dire consequences. As a reader, Substack gives me two choices if I want to acknowledge a writer.
A comment , which I usually use as I am so touched or inspired by a post, I have a high need to let the author know how their words enter into my thoughts and feelings.
A like, the heart emoji.
Even though I may like a post, to me , leaving a heart emoji for a story about brutality, abuse, war,loss or even a topic of threats to global sustainability . To me, a heart emoji has always been equated with heartfelt, uplifting,
love.
When I don’t feel ‘all warm and fuzzy’ about a topic , the use of the heart emoji is inappropriate for me personally . In this case, I said so, not realizing that you may not understand my personal reason for saying it, and chose to make a comment instead .
Thank you, prophet and keen observer of what is truly important in life! May we all pay closer attention and dig a little deeper to make some sort of difference, starting with our own backyards. ❤️💕
Twenty and early thirty something here, who has curtailed many jet fueled miles to try and stem at least one drop in the tidal wave of environmental collapse that has been driven, by and large, by my parents’ generation. When I spend time with my peers there is discussion about emissions reductions and social action. When I spend time with my elders there is eye rolling, from a generation who was taught that energy is endless and free of consequence. But the more we point fingers at each other the louder the politicians and the fossil fuel barons - who are entirely to blame for driving that narrative - laugh.
Such a kind response. It's much appreciated. Yesterday's post hit some nerves and I felt for you as I read through some of the comments. And you always handle us with such grace and sensitivity. Thank you, David. You're a lovely, powerful writer.
Thank you, Debi. May you encounter something disarmingly wonderful today and find the permission to revel in it.
It's Final: No Delta Smelt Collected in CDFW Fall Midwater Trawl Survey for Sixth Year
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/1/4/2215461/-It-s-Final-No-Delta-Smelt-Collected-in-CDFW-Fall-Midwater-Trawl-Survey-for-Sixth-Year
Thank you - a realist view of the world- and the importance of our stewardship 🌲
Dear PS (love your initials), thank you for making time to offer your encouragement.
& PS - thanks ☺️
My observations are the youth are no better, or worse, than the other generations in combating global warming.
Join me in tenaciously promoting the following messaging. Files for promoting the messaging are available on the Promote page of the mentioned web site.
Consumers (individuals, organizations, businesses, governments) must promptly minimize their greenhouse gas emissions to bridge the gap while we work on long-term green technology and infrastructure. Less heating and less cooling (none between 13C-30C/55F-85F, https://greenbetween.home.blog). Less driving. Less flying. Less meat-eating. Less population growth (2 children max). Do it yourself. Tenaciously encourage others to do it.
Good morning, Don, and thank you.
May something wonderful and unexpected find you, today.
Thank you David for this profound message of reality. It is a sad commentary on the human condition, at least here in ‘the west’ where there is so much beauty to behold if only one is willing to look for it, observe it, respect it and wish to protect it. ‘Looking after me’ seems too often to be the choice of the day….a very self-serving, short term vision. All that said, I still cling to hope, and savour the beauty. If I didn’t, I would probably spiral down into depression and give up.
Thank you Doug for the generous ways you show up. I'm so grateful you're here.
Whew. Reading your word, I ache, feel confused, want....want something different. But know that it's unlikely, alas. And, and yet the world is beautiful, still.
And yet the world is beautiful, still.
Amen.
That was hard to read, David. I, too, mourn. I think I care as much as you do and/but I'm weakening under that burden. I feel utterly helpless against the onslaught. It began to get (and may very well have gotten) the best of me when I had to move to where I now live. I won't go into detail (this is your blog; not mine 🐸) but all I do today (in terms of "my part") is entice the birds into my small backyard with clean water and oatmeal (Yes, oatmeal. Uncooked. They love it and I believe it's healthy for them). I'm in the Sonoran Desert and birds are plentiful here and they are the light of my life. The problem is, all around me are mountains of discarded plastics and rotting tires. The way they "landscape" down here ("Down here" meaning the south side) is with dyed roundup. It sickens me. I can't stop them from spraying that shit. I can't teach "adults" to stop littering when they've been doing it all their lives. Where am I going with this? I don't know. Is it enough to care about the birds in my yard and try to block out the rest? It doesn't feel like enough. I'm so sad about this. That's enough. Sorry my post is so long. I said I wouldn't go into detail...
Ohhh, Debi, your note is a gift. And it leaves me achey. I did not set out to drop such a 'hard read.' I do not suspect for even a moment that you care less than I. I don't think in those terms at all. And like you, I feel profoundly helpless in the onslaught some days. Your oatmeal feasts and clean water are just what are needed by so many little songsters and your contribution to their health and happiness is absolutely what this world needs. I'm so grateful that you dialed up the courage to leave such a generous and heartfelt comment. It was exactly as long as it needed to be and I am most grateful.
Well written and an intriguing and different perspective on my generation. It feels to me, as a 29 year old, as if we are often the only ones taking climate collapse seriously. The rich get richer through profitizing and privatizing natural lands and resources. Those of us a bit below that age and income threshold are stuck trying to decide how much of our joy and lives we sacrifice to the cause, how much we adjust to try to ensure future survival. I myself have struggled throughout my 20s to decide if I want children. I think that I do, but as a biologist, I also understand the reality of what is coming for us humans. Ultimately, I don’t want to subject children to it, so I have decided not to have any. And, as a biologist, I witness the biodiversity and habitat loss first hand every day. Many of my peers do to, even in other professions. Most of my friends are constantly concerned with the degradation and loss of our environment, and most of decided not to have children. It haunts us daily.
BUT I also believe there is a lot of beauty left to live for, a lot of joy and truth left in the natural world to experience, despite all we have witnessed, despite the mess left to us by those who came before. A perspective I try to hang on to in the face of it all. We are all here in it together, all doing the best we can. A recognition of nature and the sacred in us all helps me on the darker days.
Anyway, sorry for the long comment. Thank you for sharing!
Angie, I'm so grateful for your very thoughtful comments and encourage you to release any reticence or hold onto any need to apologize for them.
You wrote: "It feels to me, as a 29 year old, as if we are often the only ones taking climate collapse seriously." I do not doubt that this is how it feels and in some ways, as a guy in his mid-sixties that is how it has seemed to me for some time now, that your generation would likely be the ones to step up and save the lot of us from centuries of ignorance, greed and carelessness. But the data points I've been accumulating over the past few years do not seem to match up with my hopeful assumptions. Not that there is anything inherently less aware in your generation than mine ...or any other. Just that I'm really not seeing much concern from any age group. I'd think that people my age would so adore their children and grandchildren, and want so much to leave a better planet to them than the one they were born into that they'd be modifying their behaviors and trimming their expectations a bit, for posterity's sake, which seems like a grand idea until it bumps into someone's envisioned family reunion in Hawaii where all the kids will fly in with all their kids from the far reaches for a week of sun and sand, and shared laughter and meals, and jet-ski rentals and sunset keg stands on the beach. Woo-Hoo!
I feel bad, having read your kind note that I somehow implied that your generation is the problem. I didn't intend to and don't actually believe that to be the case. I'm just beginning to come to terms with, and so, releasing, finally my misplaced and unfair assumptions that they would be more a part of the solution than some other age groups. I was around a bunch of smart, affluent, kind-hearted and profoundly well educated people your age over the holidays and I continually listened to them talking about flying across the country to attend someone's engagement party later this month and to a half dozen weddings around the country already on the books before their leaf-peeping trip to New England next fall. Add in, then the two or three international vacays they're hoping to squeeze as well in twenty-twenty-four and, well, perhaps you can see the source of some of my confusion. My real intent was not to denigrate anyone or any age group, but rather to wonder aloud about how we seem to be normalizing things like bird-flu deaths and extinctions, and at least in some circles, not at all concerned about the vast changes that seem to scientists and careful observers just out there on the horizon. Please accept my thanks for your very thoughtful approach to such weighty decisions and for helping me understand a bit better some of the poor expressions and poor thinking in my own writings.
Like you I am still absolutely enchanted by the beauty that is and I spend far more time and energy feeding my sense of wonder than decrying my sense of dread. I keep on 'Birding the Apocalypse,' complimenting and talking to my feathered cousins, even on the days when I cannot quite look past the sadness and sense of loss.
Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply! I certainly didn't mean to make you feel bad or question your wording. I do believe we really are just in different circles. And I certainly cannot say my circle is innocent, either. I travelled internationally last year, as did many of my coworkers - all of us biologists who love and revere the natural world. Furthermore, I certainly have friends who didn't know we were in the middle of a mass extinction event until I told them. I certainly recognize that I'm in a unique position of exposure to it through my job and education.
I am beginning to feel like a lot of it is a combination of human nature (our shortsighted perceptions) and systemic consequence. It's very difficult for humans to see large timescales, like the ones our planet operates on. It's also very difficult to break free of the systems and the patterns we are in. For example, if there's a wedding of loved ones we want to go to, we will go, whether we "should" buy those plane tickets or not. Exactly like you said, it's all a grand idea to save the world until we actually have to go about making the sacrifices to do it. I think many of us, deep down, are just caught up in this system, just going with the way things are. We aren't really going to make big changes in our habits until we quite literally can't afford to anymore.
I also find it really striking, and honestly almost funny from a wider perspective, that you say your generation was hoping mine would save us, while I think mine was hoping the same of yours. It's like we're all very quick to throw the blame and responsibility on somebody else, without actually examining our own personal values and practices first. Another very widespread and undeniably human trait, and one that I think my generation is particularly guilty of. We do love waiting for somebody else to save us. In the face of a problem so huge, it's easy to understand why we all feel so helpless. It's far too large for any one group to tackle, yet keeping us divided by any group lines allows the system to continue on as it is. Those who profit off destroying our ecosystems can continue to do so, while the rest of us try to pick up the pieces.
Anyway, thanks again for your response and your piece. I am very happy to know that there are compassionate and thoughtful people all over who care about the same things, and that we have a platform for connection. I also love birds and look forward to reading more of your posts! Your written humor reminds me a bit of my late grandpa's writing, and I really enjoy it.
You are a gift, Angie and I am immensely pleased to make your better acquaintance. I have a feeling we'll have more to talk about and I look forward to learning from you. I'm smiling at the thought of it.
I can’t help but feel “meeting” you here through your writing and photography is a reminder to me of the necessity of kindred spirits. Grateful for your beautiful soul, David, and that you share it with us.
Thank you, Mackenzie. That gratitude you feel is quite mutual.
And for what it's worth, I promise not to show up as Davey Downer on any sort of depressingly regular basis. Some days though you wanna get downriver, you gotta either portage or run the damn rapids.
I’d opt for heartfelt Davey Downer over Keepin’ My Eyes Closes Kevin any day :)
You're still funny. I like that about you.
no offense to any Kevins!
chuckling right along with you...
So hard to be a naturalist these days and look most anywhere as we can see the struggles and demise of the beauty and harshness we came to love in our youth. We fear for the future of lives on this planet. I guess it has always been so for lovers of the wild and unrestrained. We just know it for ourselves today.
It is indeed a very complicated thing to try to calmly and lovingly wrap one's head around. I ache with you...
I can’t just give this a heart.
Seems totally inappropriate.
Very disturbing indeed.
Extinction is a dirty word.
Inappropriate; you may be right. And if you are, then I'll owe you an apology.
Extinction, a dirty word? Hmmmm.
"Hey Siri, how many species of animals are expected to become extinct this year?"
"Here's an answer: Scientists estimate that 100 to 10,000 species--from microscopic organisms to large plants and animals will go extinct this year."
PRESS RELEASE: Oct 16, 2023
Fish and Wildlife Service Delists 21 Species from the Endangered Species Act due to Extinction
Action signals a ‘wake-up call on the importance of conserving imperiled species before it’s too late’
Oh , no, no, no! Not at all how I meant it to be taken.
Ok, speaking of dirt, I’ll attempt to ‘dig’ myself out, or I should say ‘dig’ deep and explain.
I read your post. I agree.
I thought about one thing when I finished reading. First word that came to mind;
Extinction
(Britannica.com)
“Species are diminished due to environmental forces,(habitat fragmentation, global change, natural disaster, over exploitation of species for human use )or due to environmental changes in their members…”
“Still others suffered directly at the hands of humans, driven to extinction.”
“Habitat loss is the primary cause of higher extinction rates.”
Dirty word
( Dictionary.com)
“ any word,name. Or
concept considered reprehensible or unmentionable”
Reprehensible
(Oxford dictionary)
“ condemnation “
“The expression of very strong disapproval “
( deep breath)
To me , Extinction is a frightening word . What will be for generations to come?
Allowing the planet to continue on a path that will escalate extinction of many species , is reprehensible .
Global warming, habitat fragmentation, endangered species, biodiversity loss,
Extinction.
We all have heard conversations like ,“ I don’t believe in global warming or I don’t believe in climate change”. My answer ; you don’t have to believe in it, it’s not a religion . It is a scientific fact.
I used the term dirty word because many roll their eyes , or turn away in disdain from the the topic of extinction.
As if it was a dirty word.
(Exhale)
Thank you for asking for clarification.
I guess I am also being asked to clarify my comment;
“I can’t just give this a heart , seems totally inappropriate. Very disturbing indeed.”
I am fairly new to Substack. I love reading posts that interest me. Some have authored incredible pieces of writing. Intriguing and brilliant works of fiction and nonfiction.
Your post today is a well written, very serious post discussing possibly dire consequences. As a reader, Substack gives me two choices if I want to acknowledge a writer.
A comment , which I usually use as I am so touched or inspired by a post, I have a high need to let the author know how their words enter into my thoughts and feelings.
A like, the heart emoji.
Even though I may like a post, to me , leaving a heart emoji for a story about brutality, abuse, war,loss or even a topic of threats to global sustainability . To me, a heart emoji has always been equated with heartfelt, uplifting,
love.
When I don’t feel ‘all warm and fuzzy’ about a topic , the use of the heart emoji is inappropriate for me personally . In this case, I said so, not realizing that you may not understand my personal reason for saying it, and chose to make a comment instead .
Hard work .When I’m wrong I say so.
When I need to stand by my own words , I do so.
Thank you!
Timely. Lyricism married to high moral purpose. Thank you.
Thank you, Michael.
Thank you, prophet and keen observer of what is truly important in life! May we all pay closer attention and dig a little deeper to make some sort of difference, starting with our own backyards. ❤️💕
May it be so, my shaman friend. May it be so.
May we learn to care without even a hint of shame, which so often destroys far more than it helps on any meaningful level.
Thanks for weighing in, Jason.